Leaving the Cloud: The Finale - Rework Podcast

Basecamp

Jul 12, 2023

You’ve no doubt heard the 37signals team talking about leaving the cloud. Well, now the transition is complete!

In this episode of Rework, 37signals co-founder David Heinemeier Hansson and Director of Operations Eron Nicholson sit down with host Kimberly Rhodes to discuss the unexpected speed of the move, the decisions, the hurdles they faced, and the behind the scenes of the meticulous process of moving their major applications, including those that had never before been run outside the cloud.

Tune in as they share the secrets behind their successful approach and the unexpected trick that allowed them to tackle individual components without risking major disruptions. Plus, they address questions from listeners, covering topics such as backups, physical resets, and the future of their infrastructure.

Listen in for an eye-opening conversation that challenges the prevailing narratives of the cloud era and delves into the untapped potential of running your own infrastructure.

Show Notes:

[00:00] - Kimberly sits down with 37signals co-founder and CTO David Heinemeier Hansson, and director of operations, Eron Nicholson to discuss 37signals move away from the cloud.
[00:39] - David shares their surprise at the quick completion of the move and the challenges they faced in planning and technology decisions.
[01:26] - Out in six months: how the team, led by Eron, tackled the various aspects such as logging, failover, and managing two data centers while resolving numerous open questions along the way.
[03:06] - An opportunity to question existing principles and processes, resulting in a novel approach. It felt like a product launch!
[05:04] - Eron reflects on the accelerated timeline and how the entire ops and SIP team worked towards the same goal.
[06:32] - How the criticality ladder approach allowed for smoother progress to more complex applications like Basecamp Classic.
[08:47] - Eron explains the logistics and the unexpected trick that helped the team tackle individual components without risking significant disruptions.
[10:52] - Moving HEY, 37signals most critical and complex app, that had never before been run outside the cloud.
[11:23] - Kimberly shares David’s walkthrough of MRSK on YouTube and opens the floor to a few user questions from Twitter, the first one from Pedro: "Did your company buy or already own your own data centers, or are you renting space in existing data centers? Is that even an option?"
[11:50] - Running your own data center requires a gargantuan scale and enormous investment, but renting space in data centers makes it easy and capital-efficient.
[14:29] - Amnesia of the pre-cloud era: using data centers is more accessible than most people think.
[15:38] - Eron shares how to make the data centers work for you and your company.
[16:39] - Kimberly shares a question from Moshi on Twitter: "Congrats on the move. Before deciding to move, did you try negotiating with any of the large clouds?"
[16:54] - David shares their unique advantage in cloud pricing negotiations.
[19:46] - Why the cloud math doesn't work: the fundamental misalignment (and huge surprise costs) that led 37signals to leave the cloud and how running your own infrastructure makes those financial surprises disappear.
[21:11] - Kimberly shares a telling comment made by someone on David’s Twitter account.
[22:26] - How the cloud marketing campaign has successfully convinced people they're dumber than they really are.
[24:49] - "If you possess the know-how and resources, it absolutely makes sense to manage your own infrastructure." Eron shares the advantage that made the transition less daunting.
[25:32] - Kimberly shares a question from Demetro: "What about backups? How do you do it now? And what if the server needs a physical reset? How quickly can it be done?"
[25:47] - Eron explains the multiple layers of 37signals backup strategy involving multiple facilities.
[26:43] - Kimberly asks about the next undertaking for the 37signals team.
[26:52] - Eron shares the loose ends that need to be tied up and the next big question for the 37signals team.
[27:46] - David emphasizes the importance of taking a breather after the intense move to prepare for future challenges.
[28:36] - “Rework” is a production of 37signals. You can find show notes and transcripts on our website at 37signals.com/podcast. If you have a question for David and Jason about running a business, leave a voicemail at 708-628-7850 or email us with questions to have it answered on an upcoming episode.